Swindon Music

I know this thread has come up a few times before, but I just wondered how everyone else goes about their song writing. Just looking for a few hints or tips really, for example what comes first the lyrics or the music? Do you really have to include a middle eight? I have written a few songs that have been successful with my old band but I am just looking to get better.

You work around whatever idea comes first, if you have a set way of working, you'll very quickly end up repeating yourself.

Don't worry about things like middle eights, just try to get a good flow in the song.

I have absolutely no idea how I make music. I pick up the guitar, or keyboard and free myself from any crap that might limit what I do. Just have fun and the songs will come, I'm sure, Johnny.

Its too easy to get wrapped up in conventional ideas like "must have a chorus" "needs a middle eight" "here's where the solo goes". Don't worry about what things are called and where they go, just worry about things like , does that chord progression sound good, do the words flow, does the song convey the mood I'm after etc, more philosophy than technique if you like.

Also there is no right or wrong way to go about it, you might start with words, or chords, or a riff, or a feeling. Make it up as you go along and it will be much more original for it.

I usually mess around with a chord progression and hum a few melodies until i'm happy with one. Record the basic melody straight away on my shitty little dictaphone so i don't forget it. I usually do have a middle eight, if not, i'll have a solo instead.

Then i struggle with the lyrics for ages.

I usually buy a new pedal.

I listen to a song i like and then change the words.

For me the music tends to happen before the words, mainly because I play guitar much more frequently than I write words.

If you're stuck in a rut, looking at your guitar and thinking 'I don't know what to play', try limiting yourself or trying something different. Try tuning your guitar differently - you'll find yourself using completely different chords than you normally would, or even try removing a guitar string or not allowing yourself to use a certain chord/note or something.

good s**t , also get other guys to help you finsh off songs and polish them off get your band involved

Deluk

Ah... the old John Lennon approach, nothing wrong with that.

My only advice (apart from not being tied by convention) is when you've "finished" your masterpiece try and distance yourself from it and listen to it as if it were someone elses song (I try imagining it coming out of a radio). Then ask yourself "does it sound right, natural, like it couldn't be any other way". Try and see the song as a whole not a collection of verses, choruses and instrumentals. Does it still work?

The biggest mistake people make is to be seduced by elements. "Wow, I've got this great riff, I'll use it as the verse, and a really good hook that I'll use as the chorus...it'll sound great". Unfortunately you have to be lucky when shoe horning elements together like this because in 90% of cases the song will not work. It will sound exactly like it is, a series of unrelated parts.....

Now go and let your imagination and gut insticts guide you....

Great advice DrBob! I'd also add this: DON'T BE AFRAID OF BEING SIMPLE! I can remember countless songs that fell by the wayside because they "only" had two chords. Spent ages trying to shoehorn in a bunch of chords, to show how competent I was at songwriting. Never mind that the two-chord original had a great little melody and just WORKED! Some of the best pop songs are stupidly simple.

Nice tip: If you DO need to spice up a song, try swapping majors for minors. Works really nice on the 5 chord (ie G in Cmaj). Wont work on every chord, but just use your ears and get creative!

Good advice Sam. And yes, most of the most sold numbers are very, very simple....... If you overcomplicate music it becomes unlistenable.

Whilst I respect that as a way of writing music, I do think that employing a little technique (especially with regards to song structure and arrangement) can make a huge difference to the impact a song has on a listener. I'll dig up a post I put on an old thread later with a few ways I like to approach song writing - hopefully you will find them useful.

True, I was just pointing out that its too easy to get stuck in the habit of always working to a template. You are right that a structured approach can also pay dividends and stop a song descending into chaos. What we are describing here are the polar opposites and any song writer should tip into both depending on what they are trying to achieve. All this again underlines the point that you should just do what works for you.

Absolutely. Here is my previous post with a few things I've tried (not hard fast rules, just some suggestions):

I think structure and arrangement are massively important and often-neglected areas of songwriting. I try to put myself in the position of the listener, from start to finish. A song often needs to gain momentum (depending on the type of song - this won't necessarily apply to all genres, but for 'mainstream' rock/pop some of the methods listed below are fairly commonplace I think). These are some things I think can help make (and keep) a song interesting throughout:

- instant vocal entry (best used sparingly) or brief introduction followed by vocals. This grabs the listeners' attention rather than bore them with a minute of needless guitar widdling. Worked wonders for The Beatles and their ilk.
- bare minimum of repetitions (if a verse only needs 8 bars, don't make it 24 because you like it - people will go to the bar when you play it)
- relatively minimal harmony within an opening verse, followed by denser subsequent verses (can also be applied to choruses, although both sound better when subtle in my opinion)
- subtle time signature changes make a predictable song far more interesting (try cutting off a beat or two at the end of the second chorus for example - you could be surprised how much better the song sounds for little details like this)
- a tight, definite ending (too many bands neglect the end of a song)
- shrewd use of instrumentation (including range and dynamics). For example, so many 'rock' bands pile layer upon layer of distorted guitars into their songs, and it just sounds messy. Less is almost always more in song writing.

Simple things, but I find they all make a big difference when used together. I think music's biggest enemies are ego and complacency; if you take your time and really think about the sounds you're making, it will show.